KAYTE YOUNG: From WFIU in Bloomington Indiana, this is Earth Eats and I am your host Kayte Young. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I knew that this was going to be a little bit of an adventure, because I've never done this before. And so I'm sure I'm going to make some kind of stupid mistake that your listeners are going to be laughing at me whilst I'm doing this. 

KAYTE YOUNG: This week on the show, just in time for the hot pepper harvest, we revisit a story from 2019, about a novice hot sauce maker. And one from 2020 about tasting the hottest of the hot peppers. Plus a piece about a lab studying home sour dough starters. And a new story from Harvest Public Media about the mental health of farmers. That's all just ahead. Stay with us. 

KAYTE YOUNG: This is Kayte Young, I'm here with Christopher Burrus, do you prefer to go by Christopher? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I go by either one. 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. You're not offended by one or other? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: No, whatever is more efficient at the time, or whatever. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That's Chris Burrus for you. He's a pretty easy-going guy. And he likes hot peppers a lot. That's why this Summer when a farmer handed me a Carolina Reaper pepper, I wanted to ask Chris to try it with me. Carolina Reapers belong to a class of peppers known as the super hots. And they are currently listed as the hottest pepper available. Testing at around two million Scoville units (SHU), which is how the hotness of a chili pepper is generally measured. But before I get too far into the Reaper testing, I want to take you back to last Fall. You may recall a story with Christoper Burrus, learning how to make Pique. It's a Puerto Rican style vinegar based hot sauce. We'll start there. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: My name is Christopher Burrus. I am an employee of WFIU, and a lover of hot sauce. 

KAYTE YOUNG: The word amateur has it's roots in the French word for love. And amateur does something not for pay, but because they enjoy doing it. Christopher Burrus is an amateur hot sauce maker. In fact, you might say he's a novice. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I am going on my first journey today of starting to make my own hot sauce. And I'm starting with a kind of hot sauce called Pique, which is a really simple hot sauce to make, that comes fro Puerto Rico. And, at it's most basic form it's infusing vinegar with chilies. It's really the kind of hot sauce that is home made that you mostly see on the table and in people's kitchens, and everybody has their own version of it. And, so that's what I wanted to start with, because it's so simple and there's a lot of different things you can do. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Wait. So you say you are seeing it on everybody's table? I never see it. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, I guess hot sauce lovers tables. I do have a kind of a story that I know, that my Great Grandfather loved Pique. And when I told my Mom that I was going to make this, she said, "Oh yeah. He used to have a bottle of that stuff all the time. He took it around with him everywhere, and put it on everything." And so, I am kind of continuing a little bit of a family tradition here as well. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Alright. So what are we starting with, in terms of the chilies? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: So, I am going to make two different kinds of Pique. The first one, and the one I am honestly looking forward to the most used Habaneros. I love the Habanero pepper, it's my favorite pepper. I love the flavor of it. I love the heat level, the color, just everything about it. The most traditional Pique that I'm going to make, is white vinegar with some herbs and the Habaneros, that's going to be my first one. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: And the second one is going to be a little bit more of a mystery. I'm going to make a sherry-based one, instead of white vinegar. Then, I am using some Aji chilies, because they a have a great fruity flavor. The Aji chilies are long, between three and four inches, they are red and orange, green and yellow, and they have a wrinkly texture. They are used a lot in Piques because they are really easy to shove down the neck of a bottle. You don't have to prepare them much. I think I'm going to get some good heat with two Ghost peppers, and then the milder ones will add more of the fruity flavor I'm looking for. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I knew that this was going to come down to the flavor of the peppers, more than anything else. Therefore I wanted to try to source something good. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Christoper doesn't have a garden of his own, but he wanted something fresh and home grown. So he headed to the Farmer's Market one Saturday morning in October. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I had a really fun morning going around to all the different vendors, and talking to them about their peppers. It's not just heat level, it's fruity tasting peppers, versus grassy tasting peppers, and whether or not you prefer one over the other. So I got a mixture here. The Habaneros have a little bit more of that grassiness, there's a little fruitiness there as well. But these Aji are definitely on the fruity side of things. It was really fun just to go around and treat peppers in the same way you'd talk about wines. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Since it's not cooked, you can make Pique directly in the bottle that you plan to serve it in. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It becomes kind of a table piece. You have it on your table. And when people talk about making Pique, it's interesting, they also talk about the visual component of it. That you want to make sure you get a lot of different colored chilies. So that when people look at the Pique, they like the way it looks, they see how vibrant the colors are. There is a taste aspect to it, as well as a visual component, I like that about it too. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Christopher is using one liter flip-top, spring-sealed glass bottles, with air-tight stoppers. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: We need to prepare the spice mixture that we are going to use first. I have got about nine to ten cloves of garlic here. And, I've got to get these peeled. Have you ever seen the two bowl method for peeling garlic? 

KAYTE YOUNG: Let's see it. What does it involve? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: So, you take two same-sized mixing bowls, like good metal bowls are just a classic. Put all your garlic in one, and then you are going to put the two bowls on top of the other, so the garlic is fully enclosed. Then shake them up and down together for 20 seconds. So, I'll do that. Okay. 

KAYTE YOUNG: How did it work? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It did OK. Wow. You can really smell them, it definitely activated the garlic. Pretty good. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That's a really good method if you have a lot to do, it will really save you some time. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: And if nobody in your place is trying to take a nap or anything too. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Now it's time to prepare the peppers. We have got to get these softened so they start releasing their flavor. So, we are going to boil up some water and get these going, and then we will chop them up. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: While we are waiting for the water to boil we can start chopping the chilies. I know you have to be very careful when you do this. I am not big on using gloves, a lot of people suggest that. I tend to feel like it's easy to cut your fingers with gloves, so I've got some tongs and things, and I'm going to try to be as careful as I can. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I can already tell I am getting this all over my fingers. I knew that this was going to be a little bit of an adventure, because I've never done this before. I'm sure I'm going to make some kind of stupid mistake, that your listeners are going to be laughing at me whilst I am doing this. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I was hoping to keep the seeds in, because I like the heat. But, I know that the ribs of the pepper are where a lot of the heat is as well, so that is all staying in there. We are going to put these peppers in the boiling water for about two minutes, just to get them soft. Then they will go into the bottle. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh, that hot water robbed them of their color. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: You're right, it did. Oh man. Some people don't do this, some people just put the peppers straight in, they don't do the boiling part here first or anything. Wow. That is potent. We are all coughing. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I am having second thoughts about putting these Ghost peppers in it as well. 

KAYTE YOUNG: The Ghost Pepper is one of the most well-known of the super hot peppers. It's no longer the hottest pepper. I believe the Carolina Reaper holds that title at the moment, but, things change. 

KAYTE YOUNG: There's a scale for measuring the heat of a pepper. It's called the Scoville scale. Named after it's inventor, Pharmacist, Wilbur Scoville. An SHU is a Scoville heat unit, which is a way of quantifying how spicy a pepper is, by measuring the concentration of capsaicinoids. Capsaicin is the chemical that makes the chili pepper taste hot in your mouth. The Ghost pepper clocks in at about one million SHU. For comparison a Jalapeño tops out at 10,000 SHU. The hottest of the hot these days measures around two million SHU. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: These ones are yellow. This one especially looks good, it's yellow and it has this gradual greening on it. But, the most definable feature of a Ghost pepper is the really wrinkly skin. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: We are going to strain these now. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Christopher is removing the peppers that he softened in the boiling water. So that's it for the Habaneros, they are strained. 

KAYTE YOUNG: They kind of brightened back up a little, that's interesting. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, they did. They'll still look good in the bottle I think. I'm going to wash my hands again, with the salt. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So I need to step in to warn you about handling super hot peppers, like Ghost peppers. Even the Habaneros can give you a painful burn. Do your best to give the insides of the peppers away from your skin and wash your hands frequently, with either an oil cutting soap, like Don, or with some salt, to scrub off the oil from the pepper, before it settles in. If you do experience a burning sensation - and usually this happens a little bit later - try applying a dairy product like plain yogurt or sour cream. It's the only thing that's ever helped me. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Put in these long skinny peppers, that I'm just going to be able to slide right into the bottle. I think I just have to make a little slit in them, so the vinegar can get in and start extracting all that good flavor. But I'm not really going to have to do anything else to them, so that's nice. 

KAYTE YOUNG: The air in the kitchen is starting to feel a bit toxic. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Cleans out your sinuses. Now we can start getting our vinegar prepared. The vinegar you want to heat a little bit as well. Again, this is an optional step. I'm just going ahead and doing it, because I think it makes sense that the heat would allow the ingredients to start activating. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I've got white distilled vinegar, and we are going to warm it a little bit. Not enough to boil. While we are doing that, we will pour our spices into the bottles. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: For this recipe I have an idea of this one being ready around the holidays. So having it being kind of like a sauce for some foods you might have around at Christmas, or Thanksgiving. So turkey and ham, and those kinds of flavors. I thought about adding some clove, because I have seen a couple of Piques that have clove in them. I know you have to be pretty careful with the amount of clove that you put into something, as it's a pretty strong spice. Sherry goes in next. I'm not using a particularly nice Sherry, it's not cooking Sherry, but it's an inexpensive one because we are stuffing a bunch of peppers in it. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So, the Sherry one is done. He's got the peppers, a few cloves in there, and then he's topped it off with Sherry. For the Habanero one he has added garlic. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I've got some thyme here, that I also thought I would add. I really like the flavor of thyme. I think it will also look really good in the bottle afterwards. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah. It's very attractive. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Our vinegar and Sherry are both bottled. We've got all the spice we are going to put in. Except I did almost forget, black and white peppercorn. Another one of my absolute favorite spices. I know it's simple, but I'm one of those people who can never have enough pepper on anything. And this is another one that I'm just going to add to the vinegar. I'm not going to add any of it to the Sherry. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That looks really good. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. It does. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Well, I love the color of this already. You've got the black peppercorns, and then the orange Habaneros. It looks really good. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That thyme, the green. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. It's like a little hot pepper terrarium. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I love the purity of Habanero too. I think you're going to like that flavor wise. But it also looks really good to have the one color. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. I'm really happy with this so far. Give it a couple of flips to start, and then you're good to go. Now this just sits out in the sun. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I like that you have two, what are probably going to be, completely different products. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Exactly, right. There's not sweetness really to this Habanero one at all. And I think the clove in the Sherry clove Pique will be better on things like, I'm hoping, turkey and ham and mashed potatoes or whatever, any kind of Thanksgiving really. I put hot sauce on everything. I'm always thinking about that. So, that's my plan at least. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Could you talk a little bit about your relationship with vinegared things and hot things? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Sure. I've always loved those tastes, like the tangy vinegar taste, and then hot sauces. Ever since Elementary School I loved it. Actually when I was in Elementary School, it's that age where you are still trying to figure out your personality and defining yourself by your interests in an extroverted way. And since I knew I loved hot sauce so much, being like a Tabasco sauce poster child, I just bought or rather was gifted all of their products. I had a friend who's Dad worked for the Tabasco Indy 500 car racing team. One birthday he gave me all of this Tabasco promotional stuff. So I had a baseball cap, I had shirts, all sorts of Tabasco stuff. I even had a little camo belt holder, so you could have your Tabasco bottle on your belt, and I used to wear it to school. 

KAYTE YOUNG: With the Tabasco? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Oh yeah. Because I was ready to go, you know. The minute I had some food, got to put that hot sauce on it. And when you're that age too, it's all about "Whoa. How much Tabasco can you eat?. How hot can you go?" As I got older I really started to appreciate hot sauces that were a balance of heat and flavor. That's what's really ended up being the most important to me. There are so many of those hot sauces out there that are kind of gimmicky, it's all about the heat. Those are nothing to me. You've just got to get that good balance of flavor, which is why, when I decided I was finally going to start making my own, I was really concerned about internalizing the differences between different kinds of peppers and their flavors. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Well thank you, and I'm excited to check back in with you. What do you say, two weeks? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I'd probably check in two weeks and see how they are doing, yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: After a quick break we'll find out if Christopher's hot sauce met his high standards of flavor and heat balance. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Earth Eats. I'm Kayte Young, back with Christopher Burrus to give that hot sauce a taste. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: So, I've got four bottles here of the Piques. Two of them are first infusions and two of them are second ones. About a week after I made it, I was sampling it and I'd decided that the garlic was where I wanted it to be. I didn't want it any stronger and I wanted to try to bring out the Habanero a little bit more. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: We'll do the Habanero garlic first, you should give it a whiff. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That has a really strong garlic. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I'm really tasting the other herbs too. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yes. Mostly thyme and peppercorn. 

KAYTE YOUNG: The vinegar really hits you pretty strong. Once it gets to the back of your throat. It's like "Woo." 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, exactly. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But the heat is not killing me. It feels like the vinegar has mellowed a little bit over time. It's not quite as like, straight out of the bottle vinegar. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: This is infusion one, of the Sherry Aji chili, and a little clove. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It smells totally different. Wow! OK. So, it starts out Sherry. Then it goes clove and then it goes heat. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Ghost pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Ghost pepper. That's incredible! 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: That one has ended up being my favorite. It is completely unexpected, I was blown away by what it tasted like in the end. I love it personally. I think it's really interesting. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I have never tasted anything like it. And, yeah, that heat is pure. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: OK. Let's do the second infusions here. 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Because they are a little different. OK. So, this is the second infusion Habanero, you can already see the difference. It's a little lighter. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I think you accomplished your goal. The garlic is definitely diminished. And you're getting that fruity Habanero thing going on. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. That's why I like this one more. I mean the other one is good, it's just it's a different sauce. This is Habanero, the other one is garlic. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But how incredible to get two sauces out of one bottle. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, exactly. It's the same bottle that we started with. 

KAYTE YOUNG: This is the Sherry second infusion. It's still working. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's softer. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Just a little softer. The reason that I decided to give a second infusion to that one too, is because the heat level on the first one, sat right, I didn't want to go any more. I thought it was getting to the point where it was a little-- 

KAYTE YOUNG: I don't think it could go any more. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: A Ghost pepper is a scary thing. You just never know how far it's going to go. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Don't worry, you don't have to put Ghost peppers in your Pique. Make it how you like it. And if you need instructions or ideas for what to do with your Pique, we have them, at eartheats.org. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Kayte Young here, this is Earth Eats. The story we just heard about Chris Burrus and his Pique hot sauce was from last Fall. This Summer I got in touch with him again for another hot pepper matter. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So what we are going to do today is we have a Carolina Reaper pepper, and what do you know about the Carolina Reaper? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I know that it's the Guinness World Book of Records official hottest pepper in the World. With hot peppers and hot sauces we talk a lot about Scoville units. And, I know that the Carolina Reaper is supposed to be something like two million. Which is a number that I just can't really even conceive of, I don't know what that really means. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Currently, right now, I think it is the hottest pepper on the scale. The next level is pepper spray. So, I think that it is one of the hottest ones. What we are going to do today is, we are going to work our way up. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So we are gong to start with a really mild sweet pepper, which is a Banana pepper. What I've done is mixed it in with some Salsa, but we could also taste it on it's own too. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I was going do a Banana pepper, an Anaheim pepper, and a Habanero from my garden. Then we are going to work our way up to the Carolina Reaper, in terms of heat. 

KAYTE YOUNG: We are in my backyard, we are well over six feet apart and we have separate bowls, and everything. So, we are trying do this in a Covid safe way. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Right. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But, not so much safe for our taste buds, or I don't really know. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I also think that giving the Carolina Reaper a little social distance anyway, seems like a good idea. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah. OK. So this is just the Banana pepper. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: The Banana pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I feel like I tasted more chip than pepper. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Than pepper. Yeah. To me that is like grassiness. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh yeah. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It's that kind of standard grassy taste with the Banana pepper. A little heat, but that's what I taste at least. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Next in line was an Anaheim pepper, or what I think was an Anaheim pepper. It's a green chili. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I am not getting the heat at all. This is the kind that you could put in a Salsa that you're giving to kids. And, they are going to taste peppers a little bit, but they are not going to burn their mouths. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, sure. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Would you call this on the grassy or fruity side? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: This is still grassy to me, a little bit, I think. The Salsa that you made too Kayte is really excellent. Fresh salsa, here in your backyard, the sun in shining, the Salsa is fresh. I mean, we're in a pandemic but this is pretty nice. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I think that this Salsa is working pretty well as a base, which is what I intended. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Our next one is a Habanero. Again, this is definitely harvested on the early side. The peppers are fully formed, but they are not turning color yet. So this is a green Habanero. It should be a little bit hotter. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. A Habanero versus an Anaheim, yeah, I think it would be a little bit hotter. 

KAYTE YOUNG: And I didn't remove the seeds from any of these peppers. I just chopped them up. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It's interesting with the Habanero too, because I feel like the heat hits you faster. There are some peppers where it can take a little while for it to, kind of, come on for the heat. With the Habanero it's right there. Of course, I may have got a seed in my bite here, or something like that. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah, because I didn't get any heat in my bite. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: So I have a little. I have cut off a little piece of the pepper here, and I made sure that I got a little bit of the rib material in it. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I wonder if it's because it's not ripe? But I'm really, for some reason, I am not getting heat. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: So I got a little bit more there. I took a pretty large chunk of it. That's interesting how much of a difference there is, when you're eating one that is on the ripe side. That is probably as mild as the Anaheim. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I hope I didn't accidentally plant those heat-less Habaneros. I am going to be having a discussion with a Farmer if that happened. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Are you? 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. I'm getting it now. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. It's still mild for a Habanero though. 

KAYTE YOUNG: No, I am getting it now. I think it's just because it's not ripe yet. It hasn't reached its-- 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. But for me it's also the flavor of the Habanero. I just love the flavor. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I do love the flavor. I love the smell. The aroma and the flavor is great on the Habanero. That's why I always like to grow them, and to make Salsa out of them. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. I think I've said before, I've no qualms about saying that it's the best of the peppers in my opinion. I just think it has a great balance of flavor and heat. When they are ripe I think the color is very attractive. It's just a great pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah, they're really good looking. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: They grow well in Indiana. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So, are we ready? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: For the Carolina Reaper? 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yup. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: OK. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Well, this Carolina Reaper came from Sharonna Moore out at Lawrence Community Gardens, up in Indi. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I think we should be careful handling this one too, because I think it can burn your hands. She was saying that even just being out in the field harvesting them, she was coughing. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Wow. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I am going to have my water ready. And I also have some plain yogurt. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. That's what I was just about to mention. For anybody who's trying hot peppers, having something that has some fat in it, like a dairy product of some kind, some milk or some bread and butter or some yogurt, is a really good thing. Because capsaicin is fat soluble. So, sometimes when you drink water it can seem refreshing. But what it is actually doing is just spreading the capsaicin around in your mouth even more, and with some peppers it can make it worse. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I've got to just say, I got a little bit on my arm and it is burning my arm. I am not kidding, it is burning my arm a little bit. 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. I'm nervous now. OK, here we go. I'm not tasting it. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. I think I need a little bit more. I'm not really getting anything. 

KAYTE YOUNG: How can that be? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: OK. I have cut myself a little bit more of this pepper, with rib and seed. 

KAYTE YOUNG: And you are just going to eat it plain, without a chip? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I am going to try. This is what some might consider to be an idiotic amount of this pepper. But maybe not. So that pepper has absolutely no heat. 

KAYTE YOUNG: What? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I did get a little bit of irritation, as I said, on my arm when some fell on it. But, that piece that I just had... 

KAYTE YOUNG: What is happening? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: ...is not a hot pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: She must have been mistaken. She must have grabbed me the wrong one. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh, man, underwhelming. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It's just so funny because, we are sitting at this table and there's water, there is yogurt. I brought an iced coffee, because I knew it had fat in it. There's sparkling water. 

KAYTE YOUNG: We are totally ready for this intense experience. And it's like, hmm, not tasting much there. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Oh, that's so funny. I wonder if the ripeness, or lack thereof, has anything to do with it. Do you think? I wonder if it's a pepper that heats up really late. I just don't know. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I wonder too. And I would like to research that a little bit. Because I do know that my Habaneros are usually much hotter than this one. And this is under- ripe Habanero for sure. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Well Chris, I want to thank you for coming, and trying this uneventful chili pepper with me. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I mean, I'm never going to turn down an opportunity to sit in a back garden, as I said, and enjoy some peppers. And, the flavor is still good. It's not all a disappointment to be sure. The Salsa is excellent. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I will definitely be on the look-out this Summer to see if I can get a hold of one. And have you come back, and we'll try it again. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. I mean I think it lifts up the intrigue of it even more. It's slipped through our fingers this one time, but maybe next time. And then they'll be all this regret. Like, why did we pursue this pepper? When it's burning a hole through our stomachs? 

KAYTE YOUNG: Exactly. Alright, well thank you Chris. Let's just dig into the rest of this Salsa. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: That sounds good. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It was disappointing. But, I set my sights on finding a Carolina Reaper before Summer's end. I reached out to Susan Welsand, also known as The Chile Woman, to see if she could hook me up. We'll get back to our quest to taste the Carolina Reaper later on in the show. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Two-thirds of Farmers said the pandemic affected their mental health, according to an American Farm Bureau poll. The US Department of Agriculture has awarded grants to States across the country, to help improve mental health outreach among Farmers. As Kendall Crawford reports for Harvest Public Media, some Mid-Western States are distributing the resources not only to Farmers, but also to the business and community members they interact with daily. A warning for our listeners. This story mentions suicide. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: The backyard of Doug Fuller's farmhouse in Cambridge, Iowa, is full of brightly colored flowers. 

DOUG FULLER: OK then, I've got impatiens, more vinca, and this is just a hodge-podge here. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: But this time last year, the same garden was bare. As Fuller was in the middle of a year long battle with severe depression and suicidal thoughts. 

DOUG FULLER: Hopeless. Hopelessness, you know, is probably the biggest thing you think of. Because when this goes on for month after month after month, you just feel like, is this ever going to improve? 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: He doesn't know what triggered it. Maybe it was the way a windstorm flattened some of his crops. Maybe it was the isolation of Covid, but he does know he only got better after he asked for help. 

DOUG FULLER: I just don't see any reason to have kept all this to myself. Because it was as real as we are sitting here today. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: This experience of Farmers grappling with suicide, is devastatingly common. Farmers and Ranchers are nearly two times more likely to die by suicide in the US, compared to other occupations, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Many hesitate to tell someone. 

MICHAEL ROSSMANN: So they're reluctant to reveal what they perceive as weaknesses, when, indeed, admitting that we need help is a strength, not a weakness. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: That's Michael Rossmann, an Agricultural Behavioral Specialist based in South-West Iowa. He says Farmers face a lot of factors out of their control; whether commodity prices, global markets. And that can lead to a lot of stress. What makes a good Farmer independence, a willingness to take risks, can work against them, when they need help. But, Farmers often trust those in the Ag business. 

MICHAEL ROSSMANN: They often show the signs of distress to people who they work with regularly. They will tell people who are perceived to be on their side, about what they are going through. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: That's why the Iowa Department of Agriculture is taking its mental health outreach beyond the Farm, to banks to veterinarian offices, to pesticide safety trainings. They are equipping people who interact with Farmers, on how to identify distress and refer them to resources. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: At the Annual Farm Bureau agency meeting in Ute, a small town in Western Iowa, Donna Mills steps up to the microphone. 

DONNA MILLS: I just want to point out a few pages with some valuable resources. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: She directs the crowd to the pamphlets sitting in front of them. They are packed full with suicide warning signs, and hot-line numbers. The outreach co-ordinator says sometimes this presentation is met with awkward laughter. Other times she sees its impact. 

DONNA MILLS: There were a few sessions that I had, where someone would come up after me and say, "You know, there was a guy that was sitting in this training. He attempted to take his own life, several times already." So, thank you. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: Similar programs are being embraced in Nebraska. In 2019, the Department of Agriculture began to offer two hour workshops, to help community members understand Farm stress. The workshops facilitator, Glennis McClure says the goal is to teach participants how to talk to a producer in crisis. And how to ask that really important, really difficult question. Are you thinking about suicide? 

GLENNIS MCCLURE: We really shouldn't be afraid of reaching out, and trying to find out where people are in that scheme of things. It is something that we ask folks in the workshop to practice. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: Back in Cambridge, Fuller says he is not sure where he'd be if no-one asked him that question. Last year, he didn't always believe he'd make it to the next harvest. But he says, it helped that his family and friends never stopped insisting he would. 

KENDALL CRAWFORD: For Harvest Public Media, I'm Kendall Crawford. 

KAYTE YOUNG: If you, or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, you can call 988 for help. Find more from this reporting collective at harvestpublicmedia.org. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Scientists are getting ordinary people to help them understand, for the first time, what's up with the microbes that give each sourdough starter its special funk. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Producer Josephine McRobbie gets an update from the Wild Sourdough Project. 

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: Microbial Ecologist, Erin McKenney, isn't afraid to tackle controversial research questions. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: Hi. And this is the question on the minds of every San Franciscan, right? Is San Fransisco sourdough starter reproducible anywhere in the world, or is it truly just in that region?

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: She and her colleagues at North Carolina State University, have studied the science of sourdough bread for around four years. They say we know less about the microorganisms in our foods, than we do about the creatures living in the deepest parts of the sea. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: One of the overarching themes that we've found in all of this work with sourdough, is that for every question that we think we're getting toward an answer. It's like a hydra, like, nine or 15 other questions pop up.

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: A starter begins with flour and water. As you gradually refresh and stir your starter it ferments, becoming inhabited by yeast and bacteria. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: Bakers all over world know that at ten to 14 days old, after you've been growing your starter from scratch, it has developed from glorified paper-mache paste, to something that is bubbly and alive. And that will leaven your bread. It won't make a rock cake. But, nobody has every really looked at, is it really ten days, or do you have to wait a full 14 days? And, what exactly are you waiting for?

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: A recent project, Global Sourdough, worked with citizen scientists around the world, to analyze the starters that people already had in their homes, to see what role geography plays in composition. For instance, it's commonly said that the fog and temperature in the bay area has a noticeable effect on local loaves. But, Dr. McKenney says that they found no golden finger print of the yeasts in San Fransisco starts. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: I think that that has to do with each person managing their sourdough starter separately. And, we don't really live in our outdoor environments that might drive the distribution of those yeasts, or those fungus, right? We live in these glorious caves, that we've build ourselves. So we actually appear to have domesticated, or surrounded ourselves with specific different bacterial and yeast species than we might find just outside our front doors.

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: People around the world have starters that they have been cultivating for years. So the Global Sourdough Project was working with a data set that had a lot of uncontrolled variables. In April of this year, during the onset of Covid in the US, the team decided to start fresh. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: We saw the entire world started growing starters and making sourdough bread, once we were all at home. And we thought that this could be a marvelous opportunity. One. To engage folks who are already playing with bread, to also gather some data, or take pictures of their starter. And who doesn't love doing that anyway? But, if we can leverage that information for scientific knowledge, that's an incredible opportunity. And, two, it gives us an opportunity to ask some questions, and begin to address some of the questions that got opened up the last time we tried to study a different aspect of sourdough.

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: The Wild Sourdough Project invites participants to begin a sourdough starter and to track how quickly it grows over ten days. They also note the location, the flour brand, and if they use tap or bottled water. And they document the scent of the starter. How do you quantify smell? The project provides an aroma wheel. It's based on research conducted in a Danish lab. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: Do I get like grass? Is it fresh grass? Is it fermented grass? Do I get fruits? What types of fruits does it smell like? Am I getting grain? What types of grain? Or is it more like porridge? Or is it like a toasty grain? And they then grouped all those different smells into super categories.

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: So far, over seventeen hundred people have made starters, each doing their part to contribute to the creation of knowledge. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: When I'm developing citizen science projects, I'm considering them partners. And I get really, really excited about sharing the story. And about hopefully empowering anyone in the world, to do science. And to not need a fancy lab, or a degree, or to have, you know, taken that class.

JOSEPHINE MCROBBIE: The team is doing a kind of "slow science" with Wild Sourdough. It's allowing the submissions to ferment into the Fall, without an official end date for the study. McKenney draws all kinds of connections between this kind of research and baking itself. 

1. ERIN MCKENNEY: Baking was really intimidating to me for a long time. And there is a fair bit of chemistry to it, right? I mean, that's what underlies the transformation of a bread dough into a loaf. But, I think as I have learned to trust myself, and to trust the microbes. It's been humbling as a Microbial Ecologist to go from, I will extract your DNA in the lab, and I will analyze the DNA sequencing data with bioinformatic analysis, and writing code and being very specific and very exact. Going from that to a working practice of now just trusting these organisms that I have studied and admired for so long, to do what they do. What do bacteria need? They need food, they need water, they need warmth, they need space. So if you give them time, and you give them food you just wait, and they'll do their thing. It turns out, because everything that we've studied about them, we've learned because it is true. It is what they do.

KAYTE YOUNG: That story comes to us from producer Josephine McRobbie. 

KAYTE YOUNG: And now, back to my quest with Christopher Burrus, for a taste of the infamous Caroline Reaper pepper. After our July pepper tasting session ended in a zero on the Scoville scale, I asked Susan Welsand if she was growing any of the super hots. She's known as the "Chili Woman", and she sells many varieties of pepper plants, ships them all over the country, and she sells the chilies themselves from the plants she raises in her own chili field. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Susan isn't a fan of the super hot trend. She values flavor over extreme heat. 

SUSAN WELSAND: To me, they've crossed a line from being a food source to being a chemical. And when you cut open a Habanero there's that wonderful aroma, and hmm, you just kind of breathe it in. And when I cut open these super hot peppers, like a Ghost pepper, or a Scorpion or a Reaper, I get a chemical smell. 

SUSAN WELSAND: I grow some because people do want them. I sell the plants in the Spring, and they are really popular. 

KAYTE YOUNG: When I contacted her in July, she told me she should have some Reapers ready in the Fall. In late August I got a message that she had some groundhog troubles and the Reaper plants were damaged. She hoped to salvage some peppers and she would let me know. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Farming is always unpredictable, and this year seemed to be the year of animal trouble out at Susan's Farm. A hawk got to several of their chickens. 

SUSAN WELSAND: We've trapped raccoons, we've trapped groundhogs, we've trapped the white skunk the other day. And, I went to pick in the chili field and the electric fence had gone off and the deer had done a lot of damage in there. When I went out to see the damage, I realized there was a lot of down-below damage too, and it was from a groundhog. We have an electric fence around there and we have chicken-wire wrapped around the sides of the fence to keep rabbits and stuff out. So we figured that something was digging underneath.There's a tool shed out the side of the chili field and it had dug, tunneled all the way underneath the tool shed and come up in the chili field. So we got a groundhog right away, we trapped. And, I still had damage. So Terry put a trap back right on the tunnel and came back out, and it had the biggest groundhog I've ever seen. He couldn't, like, even more around in the trap. He was mad, he was so mad he rolled the trap over four times and took out a whole bunch of plants while he was doing it. But, we haven't had trouble in the chili field since then. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But, through all the trials and tribulations, Susan managed to rescue a single Carolina Reaper chili pepper. And she saved it, for me. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I told her about our experience in July, with the Reaper that had no heat to it. And I asked her about the conditions that could affect the heat level of chili peppers. 

SUSAN WELSAND: In general when it's drier, you get a lot more capsaicin in the plants. And some growers even stress their plants. They deliberately let them go to the point of wilting, and then water them to try and increase the amount of spiciness that it's in the pepper. And, you know, this is Indiana, I don't have to do that, there's always a drought at some point here. So sometimes even your jalapeños will be really hot. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So, that's why its hard to know, or to control, or to be able to predict completely what your peppers are going to taste like? 

SUSAN WELSAND: Mhmm. But, that's also kind of the fun of them too. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Susan also grows some of the heat-less Habanero varieties. 

SUSAN WELSAND: Yeah, so they look hot, but they're not. I did have a prankster at market one time, it was a little kid and I saw her do it. She switched my signs, at market. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So, what do you mean? She saw that you had hot Habaneros and sweet Habaneros. Wow. Just as a prank? 

SUSAN WELSAND: Yeah. Well I assume so. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Susan assures me there are ways to tell the difference. 

SUSAN WELSAND: The super hot ones tend to have that warty skin. So they look really evil. And Reapers have that little tail on them. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh. That's how you can tell. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I left "The Chili Woman's" Farm with my solitary devil-tailed Carolina Reaper. It was time to meet up with Chris again, to give this Carolina Reaper tasting another try. Remember Chris Burrus has a history with hot sauce and hot peppers. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I talked about when I doing a Pique, how my Mom's Grandfather used to make Pique. But, on my Dad's side, his Dad was a huge gardener. And he used to grow hot peppers to show at the County and the State Fair. But, he didn't like to eat them, he just liked to grow them. But he had this thing called the Red Badge of Courage Club. He also had a hobby where he used to make badges and pins, and things. And so he would make these Red Badge of Courage pins, and then give all of his Habaneros to his friends. And the idea was, if you could eat a whole Habanero, you would get a Red Badge of Courage, and you'd be in the Red Badge of Courage Club. It was just an excuse to be able to make these badges, and kind of get rid of these peppers. But, it was definitely my first memory of having like a super hot pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: So you did it? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, I did it. I was probably like eight or nine years old. And at that point I was already like a Tabasco sauce poster child. But I hadn't really, you know, gone in on the peppers, which is a whole different level. You will never get the true experience of heat until you just eat a hot pepper raw. That's what the Red Badge of Courage Club was all about too. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But Chris has never tried a Carolina Reaper, understood to be the hottest pepper currently available. Today is the day. Like before, we built up toward the super hot, by tasting some sweet Habaneros, which have the Habanero flavor, but no heat. And then we tried one of my traditional Habaneros, from the garden. A ripe one this time. I might have taken too big of a bite of that one. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh yeah, I'm going numb. You seem totally fine. I am dying over here. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Whoa. I mean it's spicy. You have to be totally relaxed when you do this. Because, if you accidentally have a little hiccup or you swallow oddly you are just going to regret it. I mean you can hear the difference in my voice. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah. I'm kind of dying over here. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. You took your glasses off. I've already got the hiccups. Boy. If this is how it's going to be with a Habanero, we're going to be in trouble. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I'm crying. I have tears running down my face. 

KAYTE YOUNG: After I calmed down, and cleared my palate, it was time to finally sample the star of the show: a ripened Carolina Reaper. Slicing into it, I noticed the beautiful coloring. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's gorgeous. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. That smells hot. It smells like a Ghost pepper, to me. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I'm so scared right now. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I decided to start with a cautious bite from the tip of the pepper, which doesn't have as much heat. I felt a slight numbing sensation. And then we moved into the full body of the pepper. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Mmm. There's a sweetness on the edge. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: There it is. Wow! What a flavor. Wow! 

KAYTE YOUNG: Oh, that's so strange. I'm still getting that numbing and it's almost more complete. Like, it's numbing my whole tongue. Oh, as it's reaching other parts of my-- 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: OK, that's spicy. I don't think we got the full effect. 

KAYTE YOUNG: No. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Because that is not as-- OK! 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's coming on slow. I mean every place that it has touched in my mouth is burning in a way that it wasn't even for the... I didn't... Oh. Ah. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: You know, it's a different heat than the Habanero to me. It's like-- 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's very different for me. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. It's still-- 

KAYTE YOUNG: But, it's also the way I'm ingesting it. Because the other one, I just kind of started chewing on it, and it was in the back of my throat immediately. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Man. It's getting worse. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Yeah. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Ah, man. It's like, it's white hot for me right now. Like, that is the image in my mind. It's rough. Oh man. White hot. It's like giving me butterflies a little bit. Wow! 

KAYTE YOUNG: I don't think I was bold enough. So I probably need to take a little more. The places, like I said, where it has touched, are numb. Wow! So now you have streams of tears coming down. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: You're lucky. I've got tears coming down my face. Yeah, I've definitely got stomach cramps going on now. So, yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Really? 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: But it's unlike any pepper I've ever had. I'm not exaggerating. 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. I went for it. Oh. Ah. Hah. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: It's like as you try to breathe, it's like... 

KAYTE YOUNG: Hah. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: ...flame coming in and out of your mouth. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's like the back of my jaw too. It's just like, you know how, ah, when you have like a sourdough or something. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: OK. Yeah. That was full on. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Habanero. 

KAYTE YOUNG: It really does, it puts you in the moment. There's no place else to go. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. Like all your senses are completely engaged with this pepper. All of them. Because, you know, for me I was steaming tears, running nose. It's like, the heat I mean, you're exactly right. You're just completely focused on it. It's like your body goes into full alarm mode. 

KAYTE YOUNG: You can't think about other things. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. And I do actually feel like very relaxed. 

KAYTE YOUNG: I'm starting to feel a little bit of the euphoria that comes with pepper eating. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like-- 

KAYTE YOUNG: It's coupled with the pain, that's still present. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Yeah. 

KAYTE YOUNG: But, there is that kind of wave of like, wow, something more. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: Like a relief of some kind, that makes you feel pretty good. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Alright. Well, thank you so much Chris. I am so glad we finally got to have our Carolina Reaper experience. 

CHRISTOPHER BURRUS: I know. This is the real deal, for sure. This is great. As a person who talks about peppers a lot, I feel very legitimate now, as a heat seeker. 

KAYTE YOUNG: That concludes our pepper tasting adventure. And this episode of Earth Eats. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week. 

DANIELLA RICHARDSON: Earth Eats is produced and edited by Kayte Young. With help from Eoban Binder, Alex Chambers, Mark Chilla, Toby Foster, Abraham Hill, Payton Whaley, reporters at Harvest Public Media and me, Daniella Richardson. 

KAYTE YOUNG: Special thanks to Christopher Burrus, Susan Welsand, and Erin McKenney. 

DANIELLA RICHARDSON: Our theme music is composed by Erin Tobey and performed by Erin and Matt Tobey. Additional music on the show comes to us from artists at Universal Production Music. Our Executive Producer is John Bailey.